{"id":217704,"date":"2025-01-17T16:18:06","date_gmt":"2025-01-17T16:18:06","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/news.talkwithrattan.com\/index.php\/2025\/01\/17\/france-wants-to-prosecute-the-founder-of-chat-site-linked-to-pelicot-rapes\/"},"modified":"2025-01-17T16:18:06","modified_gmt":"2025-01-17T16:18:06","slug":"france-wants-to-prosecute-the-founder-of-chat-site-linked-to-pelicot-rapes","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/news.talkwithrattan.com\/index.php\/2025\/01\/17\/france-wants-to-prosecute-the-founder-of-chat-site-linked-to-pelicot-rapes\/","title":{"rendered":"France Wants to Prosecute the Founder of Chat Site Linked to Pelicot Rapes"},"content":{"rendered":"<div style=\"text-align:center\"><img decoding=\"async\" src=\"https:\/\/i3.wp.com\/static01.nyt.com\/images\/2025\/01\/16\/multimedia\/16france-coco-01-tgvc\/16france-coco-01-tgvc-facebookJumbo.jpg?ssl=1\" class=\"attachment-post-thumbnail size-post-thumbnail wp-post-image\" alt=\"France Wants to Prosecute the Founder of Chat Site Linked to Pelicot Rapes\" title=\"France Wants to Prosecute the Founder of Chat Site Linked to Pelicot Rapes\" \/><\/div><p> <br \/>\n<\/p>\n<div data-testid=\"companionColumn-0\">\n<div class=\"css-53u6y8\">\n<p class=\"css-at9mc1 evys1bk0\">Shortly after Pavel Durov, the founder of Telegram, was <a class=\"css-yywogo\" href=\"https:\/\/www.nytimes.com\/2024\/08\/28\/business\/telegram-ceo-pavel-durov-charged.html\" title=\"\">arrested<\/a> by the police in France last summer and charged with failing to prevent illicit activity on the app, a French law professor specializing in cybersecurity got online messages from a man named Isaac Steidl.<\/p>\n<p class=\"css-at9mc1 evys1bk0\">\u201cI would like to talk with you,\u201d said an email signed by Mr. Steidl, who introduced himself as the founder of the online chat site Coco. \u201cMy case is very similar to Telegram\u2019s, and so are the charges.\u201d<\/p>\n<p class=\"css-at9mc1 evys1bk0\">Michel S\u00e9jean, the professor, who shared copies of the messages with The New York Times, said he didn\u2019t know Mr. Steidl, had no interest in helping him, and never responded. He was, however, familiar with Coco \u2014 a website where anonymous users could chat without leaving records of the conversation.<\/p>\n<p class=\"css-at9mc1 evys1bk0\">French law enforcement had tied the site to thousands of criminal cases, including the <a class=\"css-yywogo\" href=\"https:\/\/www.nytimes.com\/2024\/12\/19\/world\/europe\/dominique-pelicot-france-rape-trial.html?searchResultPosition=2\" title=\"\">recent trial<\/a> of <a class=\"css-yywogo\" href=\"https:\/\/www.nytimes.com\/2024\/12\/18\/world\/europe\/france-dominique-pelicot-rape-trial.html\" title=\"\">Dominique Pelicot<\/a> and 50 other men, most of whom were convicted of raping Mr. Pelicot\u2019s now ex-wife while she was heavily sedated, and who testified that they had first met him on the chat site.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<aside class=\"css-ew4tgv\" aria-label=\"companion column\"\/><\/div>\n<div data-testid=\"companionColumn-1\">\n<div class=\"css-53u6y8\">\n<p class=\"css-at9mc1 evys1bk0\">The French authorities had already closed the website in June, and the messages to Mr. S\u00e9jean suggested that Mr. Steidl was concerned that they would target him next.<\/p>\n<p class=\"css-at9mc1 evys1bk0\">Last week, they did.<\/p>\n<p class=\"css-at9mc1 evys1bk0\">Like Mr. Durov before him, Mr. Steidl was placed under investigation <a class=\"css-yywogo\" href=\"https:\/\/www.nytimes.com\/2025\/01\/09\/world\/europe\/france-pelicot-rape-trial-coco-indictment.html?searchResultPosition=1\" title=\"\">on a raft of criminal charges<\/a> by authorities mainly using a 2023 law that has made France a testing ground for an aggressive new approach to hold the heads of online platforms <a class=\"css-yywogo\" href=\"https:\/\/www.nytimes.com\/2024\/08\/28\/technology\/durov-telegram-liability-platforms.html\" title=\"\">personally liable<\/a>.<\/p>\n<p class=\"css-at9mc1 evys1bk0\">The <a class=\"css-yywogo\" href=\"https:\/\/www.legifrance.gouv.fr\/codes\/article_lc\/LEGIARTI000049579329\" title=\"\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">new law<\/a> allows the authorities to prosecute people who run the platforms and knowingly permit illegal content, goods or services to be exchanged while also requiring users to remain<span class=\"css-8l6xbc evw5hdy0\">  <\/span>anonymous or while failing to keep certain user data.<\/p>\n<p class=\"css-at9mc1 evys1bk0\">While some experts warn that the new law remains relatively untested in courts, it has given the French authorities a seemingly powerful new tool.<\/p>\n<p class=\"css-at9mc1 evys1bk0\">\u201cThe noose is tightening around the administrators of this type of platform,\u201d said Nathalie Bucquet, a lawyer for the French chapter of Innocence in Danger, a child protection organization that had called for Coco to be shut down. <\/p>\n<\/div>\n<aside class=\"css-ew4tgv\" aria-label=\"companion column\"\/><\/div>\n<div data-testid=\"companionColumn-2\">\n<div class=\"css-53u6y8\">\n<p class=\"css-at9mc1 evys1bk0\">Mr. Steidl, 44, did not respond to requests for an interview. But in the years preceding his indictment, he took steps that made it harder for French law enforcement to reach him. He dropped his French citizenship, registered his website abroad and moved to Bulgaria.<\/p>\n<p class=\"css-at9mc1 evys1bk0\">Last week, he was ordered to pay 100,000 euros ($102,000) in bail and was barred from leaving France, with the obligation to regularly check in at a local police station.<\/p>\n<p class=\"css-at9mc1 evys1bk0\">Julien Zanatta, his lawyer, said that Mr. Steidl willingly traveled to France to cooperate when the authorities summoned him. Mr. Steidl would \u201cdemonstrate his innocence\u201d and was \u201chorrified\u201d by reports of crimes tied to his platform, his lawyer said.<\/p>\n<p class=\"css-at9mc1 evys1bk0\">\u201cHe was upset to find out what had been done by people who had misused his site,\u201d Mr. Zanatta said.<\/p>\n<p class=\"css-at9mc1 evys1bk0\">Coco was first registered in 2005 with a plain home page and a cutesy 1990s aesthetic, with a cracked-open coconut. It advertised itself as a \u201cnice\u201d chatting forum that did not require users to create an account \u2014 they could access it by providing only a gender, age, postal code and pseudonym.<\/p>\n<p class=\"css-at9mc1 evys1bk0\">Users could chat directly or join forums, and the site made money by charging a small monthly fee for access to additional features. In the three months before it was shut down, the site\u2019s monthly traffic reached more than 500,000 users, according to SimilarWeb estimates.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<aside class=\"css-ew4tgv\" aria-label=\"companion column\"\/><\/div>\n<div data-testid=\"companionColumn-3\">\n<div class=\"css-53u6y8\">\n<p class=\"css-at9mc1 evys1bk0\">Crucially, records of the anonymous conversations were not kept.<\/p>\n<p class=\"css-at9mc1 evys1bk0\">Over the years, the authorities <a class=\"css-yywogo\" href=\"https:\/\/france3-regions.francetvinfo.fr\/nouvelle-aquitaine\/haute-vienne\/limoges\/arnaque-en-ligne-huit-mois-ferme-pour-une-nouvelle-affaire-d-extorsion-via-le-site-de-chat-coco-fr-2952290.html\" title=\"\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">repeatedly<\/a> <a class=\"css-yywogo\" href=\"https:\/\/www.francetvinfo.fr\/faits-divers\/neuf-personnes-mises-en-examen-dans-le-loiret-pour-extorsion-via-le-site-coco-gg_6855401.html\" title=\"\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">tied<\/a> <a class=\"css-yywogo\" href=\"https:\/\/www.20minutes.fr\/societe\/4098797-20240629-isere-quatre-jeunes-mis-examen-guets-apens-via-site-coco\" title=\"\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">the site<\/a> to criminal activity, and advocacy groups fighting child abuse and <a class=\"css-yywogo\" href=\"https:\/\/www.lemonde.fr\/en\/france\/article\/2024\/05\/26\/homophobic-ambushers-are-baiting-and-beating-gay-men-across-france_6672738_7.html\" title=\"\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">homophobia<\/a> had become increasingly vocal in demanding that the authorities close it.<\/p>\n<p class=\"css-at9mc1 evys1bk0\">Mark Pohlmann, the president of a nonprofit against cyberviolence in France \u2014 who was interviewed by the police as part of the investigation into Coco \u2014 said that when conducting research about the chat site by posing as a female user, dozens of male users contacted him within seconds of logging on, often by making sexual comments or asking for explicit photos.<\/p>\n<p class=\"css-at9mc1 evys1bk0\">The French police and prosecutors say that from 2021 to 2024, the platform was implicated in over 23,000 cases that involved 480 alleged victims, including allegations of sexual abuse of children, pimping, prostitution, rape, drug trafficking, scams and homicides.<\/p>\n<p class=\"css-at9mc1 evys1bk0\">At the Pelicot trial, Mr. Pelicot said that he had met the other men on the website, in a private chat room called \u201cWithout her knowledge.\u201d Most of the defendants denied ever seeing that particular chat room but acknowledged that they had met Mr. Pelicot on the site before moving to other platforms.<\/p>\n<p class=\"css-at9mc1 evys1bk0\">Several defendants at the trial said they came to the website in search of paid sex, or to buy and sell drugs. Christian Lescole, a professional fireman and longtime user of the website, told the court that it started as a space to discuss hobbies like chess or music.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<aside class=\"css-ew4tgv\" aria-label=\"companion column\"\/><\/div>\n<div data-testid=\"companionColumn-4\">\n<div class=\"css-53u6y8\">\n<p class=\"css-at9mc1 evys1bk0\">\u201cBut as the years went by, all the predators and scammers started coming to Coco,\u201d said Mr. Lescole, who was convicted of aggravated rape of Ms. Pelicot.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<aside class=\"css-ew4tgv\" aria-label=\"companion column\"\/><\/div>\n<div data-testid=\"companionColumn-5\">\n<div class=\"css-53u6y8\">\n<p class=\"css-at9mc1 evys1bk0\">Even as the website\u2019s notoriety grew, its founder remained in the shadows.<\/p>\n<p class=\"css-at9mc1 evys1bk0\">Mr. Steidl seemed to live off the internet but has a very low profile online. His Facebook <a class=\"css-yywogo\" href=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/isaac.steidl\" title=\"\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">page<\/a> is empty. His <a class=\"css-yywogo\" href=\"https:\/\/www.linkedin.com\/in\/isaac-steidl-9ba6004b\/\" title=\"\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">LinkedIn<\/a> page is bare-bones. How closely Mr. Steidl managed the website on a day-to-day basis is unclear. Two people identified as moderators of the site were <a class=\"css-yywogo\" href=\"https:\/\/x.com\/GDarmanin\/status\/1818689754046533856\" title=\"\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">arrested in July<\/a>, but authorities did not detail their exact role.<\/p>\n<p class=\"css-at9mc1 evys1bk0\">Born in the Vaucluse and raised in the Var, both areas of southeastern France, Mr. Steidl graduated from a computer science program at an engineering university in Toulon in 2003, the school\u2019s head of communications said. <\/p>\n<p class=\"css-at9mc1 evys1bk0\">Mr. Steidl owned the coco.fr domain name through a company called Zenco that was registered in Toulon in 2011. In 2022, during the investigation that preceded the Pelicot trial, the investigating judge\u2019s office contacted Zenco to request data connected to the case. But it never received an answer, according to an overview of the case by the judge.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<aside class=\"css-ew4tgv\" aria-label=\"companion column\"\/><\/div>\n<div data-testid=\"companionColumn-6\">\n<div class=\"css-53u6y8\">\n<p class=\"css-at9mc1 evys1bk0\">Soon after, Ms. Steidl began pulling his company, his website, and himself, out of France.<\/p>\n<p class=\"css-at9mc1 evys1bk0\">By October 2022, <a class=\"css-yywogo\" href=\"http:\/\/coco.fr\/\" title=\"\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">coco.fr<\/a> was redirecting traffic to <a class=\"css-yywogo\" href=\"http:\/\/coco.gg\/\" title=\"\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">coco.gg<\/a>, according to <a class=\"css-yywogo\" href=\"https:\/\/www.bnf.fr\/fr\/consulter-les-archives-de-linternet\" title=\"\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">internet archives<\/a> at the French National Library, indicating that it had been registered in Guernsey, an island in the English Channel.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<aside class=\"css-ew4tgv\" aria-label=\"companion column\"\/><\/div>\n<div data-testid=\"companionColumn-7\">\n<div class=\"css-53u6y8\">\n<p class=\"css-at9mc1 evys1bk0\">Then, in 2023, Zenco was shut down, according to public business records. That same year, in April, Mr. Steidl renounced his French citizenship, government records show. His lawyer says he is an Italian citizen.<\/p>\n<p class=\"css-at9mc1 evys1bk0\">And at some point, he moved to Bulgaria, where a company called Vinci LTD was associated with the site in March 2024, according to information collected by Domaintools. Vinci is owned and managed by Mr. Steidl, according to <a class=\"css-yywogo\" href=\"https:\/\/papagal.bg\/search_results\/%D0%92%D0%B8%D0%BD%D1%87%D0%B8?type=company&amp;page=1\" title=\"\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">Bulgarian company registration records<\/a>.<\/p>\n<p class=\"css-at9mc1 evys1bk0\">But in June, after an 18-month investigation spanning across Europe, French authorities shut the site down. Two of the site\u2019s servers were seized in Germany, bank accounts were frozen in several European countries, and police seized 5 million euros. French law enforcement officials questioned Mr. Steidl in Bulgaria, although he was not charged at the time.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<aside class=\"css-ew4tgv\" aria-label=\"companion column\"\/><\/div>\n<div data-testid=\"companionColumn-8\">\n<div class=\"css-53u6y8\">\n<p class=\"css-at9mc1 evys1bk0\">Mr. S\u00e9jean, the expert who was contacted by Mr. Steidl, said that France\u2019s 2023 law \u2014 and the creation in 2019 of a specialized national cybercrimes unit \u2014 had allowed French prosecutors to take a less piecemeal approach in their targeting of online platforms suspected of allowing illicit activity to flourish.<\/p>\n<p class=\"css-at9mc1 evys1bk0\">\u201cBefore 2023, you couldn\u2019t get at it in one fell swoop, it was broken down case by case,\u201d said Mr. S\u00e9jean, who teaches at the <a class=\"css-yywogo\" href=\"https:\/\/univ-droit.fr\/universitaires\/4236-sejean-michel\" title=\"\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">Universit\u00e9 Sorbonne Paris Nord<\/a>.<\/p>\n<p class=\"css-at9mc1 evys1bk0\">Ms. Bucquet, the lawyer, said the new law \u201cgreatly facilitates\u201d police work because \u201cthe mere knowledge of the illicit nature of the content justifies criminal liability on the part of the administrator.\u201d<\/p>\n<p class=\"css-at9mc1 evys1bk0\">But some critics said applying the new offense to Mr. Steidl\u2019s website could be overreaching, and that while the law has allowed prosecutors to swiftly bring charges, future convictions are uncertain. <\/p>\n<p class=\"css-at9mc1 evys1bk0\">Alexandre Archambault, a lawyer with expertise in digital and cybersecurity cases, noted that the first conviction using the new law, <a class=\"css-yywogo\" href=\"https:\/\/x.com\/parquetdeParis\/status\/1858774666594201855\" title=\"\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">in November<\/a>, was against the creator and the administrator of a Telegram group that shared child sex abuse material \u2014 not Telegram itself or its executives.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<aside class=\"css-ew4tgv\" aria-label=\"companion column\"\/><\/div>\n<div data-testid=\"companionColumn-9\">\n<div class=\"css-53u6y8\">\n<p class=\"css-at9mc1 evys1bk0\">\u201cDoes this extensive interpretation of the offense conform to European law?\u201d Mr. Archambault said. \u201cI doubt it.\u201d<\/p>\n<p class=\"css-at9mc1 evys1bk0\">Mr. Steidl\u2019s lawyer said that his client was being unfairly singled out.<\/p>\n<p class=\"css-at9mc1 evys1bk0\">\u201cThere are regularly sites that are diverted from their purpose to commit offenses, and the people in charge of these sites are never prosecuted for complicity,\u201d he said. <\/p>\n<p class=\"css-at9mc1 evys1bk0\">Under French and European rules, platforms that host content online cannot be held liable for what users publish, and they are not under any obligation to preemptively monitor for any illegal content.<\/p>\n<p class=\"css-at9mc1 evys1bk0\">But they also need to have procedures allowing people to flag such content for removal and to ensure some level of cooperation with authorities \u2014 which was not the case for Coco, according to French prosecutors, who said it showed \u201ca notorious lack of moderation.\u201d<\/p>\n<p class=\"css-at9mc1 evys1bk0\">For now, though, some advocacy groups say that closing the website was insufficient.<\/p>\n<p class=\"css-at9mc1 evys1bk0\">\u201cThe day they shut Coco down, I sent the police an email with a list of over 100 similar websites,\u201d said Mr. Pohlmann, the nonprofit president. \u201cIt\u2019s like saying that closing a drug dealing spot in Marseille solves the problem of drug trafficking in France.\u201d<\/p>\n<p class=\"css-at9mc1 evys1bk0\">\u201cCoco is the tree hiding the forest,\u201d he said.<\/p>\n<p class=\"css-798hid etfikam0\">Liz Alderman<!-- --> contributed reporting from Paris, <!-- -->Michael H. Keller<!-- --> and <!-- -->Jennifer Valentino-DeVries<!-- --> from New York.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<aside class=\"css-ew4tgv\" aria-label=\"companion column\"\/><\/div>\n<p><br \/>\n<br \/><a href=\"https:\/\/www.nytimes.com\/2025\/01\/17\/world\/europe\/pelicot-rape-trial-coco-isaac-steidl.html\">Source link <\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Shortly after Pavel Durov, the founder of Telegram, was arrested by the police in France last summer and charged with failing to prevent illicit activity on the app, a French law professor specializing in cybersecurity got online messages from a man named Isaac Steidl. \u201cI would like to talk with you,\u201d said an email signed [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":217705,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"tdm_status":"","tdm_grid_status":"","fifu_image_url":"https:\/\/static01.nyt.com\/images\/2025\/01\/16\/multimedia\/16france-coco-01-tgvc\/16france-coco-01-tgvc-facebookJumbo.jpg","fifu_image_alt":"","footnotes":""},"categories":[1],"tags":[4186,8799,171609,145221,171607,105773,5325,9403,27745,137130,1109,105774,32773,129307,13199,171608],"amp_enabled":true,"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/news.talkwithrattan.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/217704"}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/news.talkwithrattan.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/news.talkwithrattan.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/news.talkwithrattan.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/2"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/news.talkwithrattan.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=217704"}],"version-history":[{"count":1,"href":"https:\/\/news.talkwithrattan.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/217704\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":217706,"href":"https:\/\/news.talkwithrattan.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/217704\/revisions\/217706"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/news.talkwithrattan.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/217705"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/news.talkwithrattan.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=217704"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/news.talkwithrattan.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=217704"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/news.talkwithrattan.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=217704"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}